uhhhhh

[Smeee]

WOAH, lots of jib jab while i was at work lol
i really like where all this is goin tho. (aside from the hostility) nothing really to add or disagree w except one thing i read while i was at work, but i cant find it now to quote it, so bare w me.
smeee, you had mentioned sumthin like simply not believing isnt a good enough arguement. or sumthing along those lines. (let me know if i got that wrong)
and i feel what you are sayin. its annoying as hell to be debating or talkin about this w someone who has no real arguement except they simply dont believe or accept it. like a closed minded view. ive been there w friends that were christians myself. its annoying as hell.

Pretty much. I wasn't saying that's its really that big of deal in not believing, just that, if you are going to believe something, be able to defend why.

but, as i briefly touched on early in the thread, i feel that is possibe to just refuse to believe and not care about the details. i was kinda like that for a while before i decided to actually look into and pay attention to why i didnt believe. and my best friend is still that way. he dont give a damn if there is a god, or whats gonna happen when he dies. he just knows he doesnt believe any of it at all. i just know how it is to see something as being completely rediculous, and not believing in it whatsoever. no matter what evidence is placed in front of me to agrue the existence of the christian god, aside from seing him myself, i wont believe it to be true. i would easily sooner believe that it was lies and coverups and stories started loooong ago, than believe that a man died then came back to life days later. or turned water into wine. or was born from a mother that never had conceived the child. lies and corruption occur A LOT in humanity. those "miracles" dont at all. so to someone like me, those things jus take away all credibility from the get go. to me jesus was a man who, either, actually believed he was the son of god (which makes him crazy) or was in on it for his own personal, or group gains of some kind.

Thank you, lies and corruption DO occur A LOT in HUMANITY, obviously religion isn't exempt.

And something to consider, Jesus stood to gain nothing, in worldly things. What came from the sacrifices he made, personally? His beliefs had him beat in some of the most inhumane ways possible, and to the grave preached what he believed, like many Christian Martyrs since. The greatest testimony to the Christian faith now days isn't seen in America, but around the world. Look into Christian martyrs in China, India, Korea, etc. people that are believing in something not b/c it makes them feel good or gives them some kind of closure, but b/c they can't deny their faith, and so much so die because of it. More to come on this later...

what? i do not know. just like i dont know where the universe began, or how big it is. i accept that there are things that we havent figured out yet and most likely i wont find the answer before i become worm food. and thats totally fine for me. i dont need a belief in a god or religion to make me a good person. or to appreciate the world and life itself. i can get all the emotional benifits of religion as you can w out it.

I can dig that, i can totally dig everyone having their own opinion, or not. What i can't dig though, is someone taking half-truths, partial understanding of my faith and my beliefs and trying to tell me that everything i believe in, everything I learned in countless hours of research, is nonsense, not b/c they can prove it scientifically, but just b/c they can't believe it.

[bedlam]

werd



on a side note smeeegle! you are by far the hardest and most fun person that ive met to debate religion w. because you actually study every word. like school. its tough and frustrating, but fun at the same time. i enjoy hearing it ALL.

[Smeee]

werd
on a side note smeeegle! you are by far the hardest and most fun person that ive met to debate religion w. because you actually study every word. like school. its tough and frustrating, but fun at the same time. i enjoy hearing it ALL.

[bedlam]

ALL meaning every side to the story

[slowrider87]

Really? I am trying to be patient, seriously, but these facts your pulling out of, who knows where are just not worth arguing. History IS HEAR SAY, that is what it is.

lol. honestly my man, despite what the things i've been saying may sound to mean, i am not here to say god doesn't exist. i was simply trying to share my personal reasons for why i do not attend or conform to the beliefs of a single congregation. because of what i was raised to believe i am inclined to believe the religious theory of the creation of man over the evolution theory. but i am me, i don't wish to only believe and see the things i was RAISED to see/believe. i seek out any questionable flaw and reason for anything and everything someone presents to me, thats how i am. and i don't do it to contradict, call someone out, be a hypocrite (although sometimes i do unintentinoally make myself look to be), etc... i do it because i am curious to learn and see all sides of everything i have the chance to explore. That is how i see this whole thread. you are the only one here who has gone trough the schooling and found it to better your life. i want to hear your knowledge and reasoning. it's interesting, so forgive my arguing.

You're right about all that DNA stuff. it is out there to believe that it just happens. it may seem more likely that a higher power created all that exists before our eyes as opposed to it "just happening", but i'm naturally an argumentative person, maybe it's a curse, maybe not, so i argue with this simple question... If a higher power created everything we know... who and what created that higher power? Science as we know it (which in the future may be proved wrong) say's things don't just appear from nothing. everything is composed of molecules that are composed of atoms and so forth. there is scientific proof of that, and religion wouldn't object to that (as i know it). so lets say the higher power created these protons, neutrons, and electrons that form the atoms that form the molecules that form our DNA, body, mind, buildings, plants, planets etc... which scripture explains what created that higher power.

i know this all sounds like a stretch. but it's the questions that pop into my head, and, i suspect, others too.

[1RUFFRYDER]

[Smeee]

lol. honestly my man, despite what the things i've been saying may sound to mean, i am not here to say god doesn't exist. i was simply trying to share my personal reasons for why i do not attend or conform to the beliefs of a single congregation. because of what i was raised to believe i am inclined to believe the religious theory of the creation of man over the evolution theory. but i am me, i don't wish to only believe and see the things i was RAISED to see/believe. i seek out any questionable flaw and reason for anything and everything someone presents to me, thats how i am. and i don't do it to contradict, call someone out, be a hypocrite (although sometimes i do unintentinoally make myself look to be), etc... i do it because i am curious to learn and see all sides of everything i have the chance to explore. That is how i see this whole thread. you are the only one here who has gone trough the schooling and found it to better your life. i want to hear your knowledge and reasoning. it's interesting, so forgive my arguing.

thanks buddy, please forgive me harshness, looking back over i thought to myself,

You're right about all that DNA stuff. it is out there to believe that it just happens. it may seem more likely that a higher power created all that exists before our eyes as opposed to it "just happening", but i'm naturally an argumentative person, maybe it's a curse, maybe not, so i argue with this simple question... If a higher power created everything we know... who and what created that higher power? Science as we know it (which in the future may be proved wrong) say's things don't just appear from nothing. everything is composed of molecules that are composed of atoms and so forth. there is scientific proof of that, and religion wouldn't object to that (as i know it). so lets say the higher power created these protons, neutrons, and electrons that form the atoms that form the molecules that form our DNA, body, mind, buildings, plants, planets etc... which scripture explains what created that higher power.

i know this all sounds like a stretch. but it's the questions that pop into my head, and, i suspect, others too.

I love it! Okay, well you are talking about Newtons first law of thermodynamics which pretty much says matter cannot be created nor destroyed, and while this would seem to blow the creation story out the water b/c according to the Bible, God just always was, it also poses a huge problem for science b/c the scientific story of origin claims something roughly the same. One day, nothing, next day, everything, obviously this doesn't fly and hence why the big bang is still a theory and the origin has yet to be proven any one way.

thas so jacked up yo!









where are our super rad beards

[bedlam]

hahahahaha we had to lighten the tension kennethy

[slowrider87]

thanks buddy, please forgive me harshness, looking back over i thought to myself,

I can not forgive you because in my mind you have done nothing wrong.

I found it funny that you used the joker. i have the one i posted on my wall in my room. although i did just google that image cuz it was easier.

I love it! Okay, well you are talking about Newtons first law of thermodynamics which pretty much says matter cannot be created nor destroyed, and while this would seem to blow the creation story out the water b/c according to the Bible, God just always was, it also poses a huge problem for science b/c the scientific story of origin claims something roughly the same. One day, nothing, next day, everything, obviously this doesn't fly and hence why the big bang is still a theory and the origin has yet to be proven any one way.

I always just kinda hoped that the big bang theory and gods creation went hand in hand. like he was trying to impress a female in god world and was like "Hey baby, how you doing? wanna see a magic trick?" then she's like "Eww, no gross don't talk to me like that!" and then he's like "No no no, for real girl, check it..."

***Claps hands, and BANG!!!***

It would totally settle both ides of the story if it was true and could be prooven

[Smeee]

^haaa, sounds like an episode of family guy


But i have heard religious people describe it as a big bang, just a big bang God spoke into existence

[slowrider87]

LMAO... totally forgot about that episode. a perfect addition to the thread.

[Smeee]

Not to get this 'started' again, buuuut i did want to share this. I think this video is a great example of how for some, its more than a religion, for some, the 'religion' has nothing to do with it. Brian's new album is pretty rockin n i got a good ways into the book he wrote.

Video is from IamSecond.com
http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/...nHeadWelch.mp4